Taking Vitamins

Discussion in 'Chat' started by W5HRO, Sep 16, 2017.

  1. W5HRO

    W5HRO Administrator

    I recently went to the doctor and my total cholesterol number was back up a little over 200 at 206 and my PSA number had spiked up a little as well. We increased my Lipitor dosage to 20mg per day instead of only 10mg, but then what to do about the PSA? The PSA test isn’t a very arcuate test but it’s all they currently have and is used as a quick indicator or flag.

    I started taking a One A Day 50+ vitamin again every day and I think with some slight improvment, but after doing a lot of research I discovered it has some other vitamins in it that you don’t really want like vitamin K1. Vitamin K is both K1 and K2 combined. There were a couple of times where my liver number had spiked up, but when it did was back when I was taking an aspirin everyday along with the One A Day 50+ vitamin. What I discovered is vitamin K1 when mixed with blood thinners (like aspirin) create a side effect so now I have an idea why my number spiked up back then. When I stopped taking the aspirin and that vitamin everyday my liver number when back down to normal and it’s been that way for the past 3 years now. It was either the combination of the aspirin and the vitamin, the aspirin combined with the Lipitor, or the vitamin combined with the Lipitor, one of the three.

    What I also recently read was there was a long-detailed study done that showed high levels of vitamin C and vitamin K2 combined helped reduce prostate cancer in Men by as much a 60%. Ratios of 100:1 meaning 10,000mcg of vitamin C and 100mcg of vitamin K2 each day really helps. Vitamin K1 won’t help and can cause side-effects with other medications. It has to be vitamin K2 only. The study was actually done with 45mcg of K2 each day with the vitamin C, but most of the K2 you can buy are sold in 100mcg tablets. They also discovered that adding vitamin D3 with K2 can amplify the benefits.

    I really don’t have any serious health issues right now, but I like to eat and even if I exercise my today cholesterol number only goes down to around 185 - 190. When I get a little lazy it creeps up to 200 or just over it so I think the 20mg per day should drop it down to more like 170 or even 160 which will be fine. It doesn’t seem to affect my liver at all. Of course, there is LDL cholesterol and HDL cholesterol and I just used my total cholesterol number as the example. My cholesterol to HDL ratio was normal and under 5.0 this last time. My total cholesterol is what was too high.

    Anyway, after doing all of the research I bought some 1000mg vitamin C, 100mcg vitamin K2 and some 1000UI vitamin D3 tablets and started taking those each day instead of those crappy One A Day multi-vitamins. Excessive vitamin C won’t do anything expect become expensive urine so it won’t matter how much if it you take and 100mcg of K2 should be fine. I bought the lower dose of D3 because you don’t really want too much of that, but it will sync with the K2 and help.

    I guess the point is don’t just buy vitamins and take them without doing all of the research first because they can do more harm than good if you are not carful.
    .
     
  2. K4TQF

    K4TQF Member

    One-a-day is shit... so is GNC...so is Shaklee.

    To get your PSA # down take 2000mg + per day of pumpkin seed oil. Don't laugh, it works. Been there done that.


    Nature's Plus "Source of Life"
    without iron, are the best I've found over the past 40 years. Compare labels & you'll see why. They also make it in powder form. Just throw a couple of scoops into a smoothie and head to work. You'll be president of the company in no time at all. For some real vitamins look here: https://iherb.co/B8pmAas click on the ingredients photo and mouse over for magnification.

    iHerb.com is usually low cost or someplace like Vitacost. Don't buy them @ Whole Foods unless you like to be prison raped...
     
  3. W5HRO

    W5HRO Administrator

    That's because it contains zinc. That was the other important one I didn't mention.

    Anyway, the below is what I have. I don't trust a lot of those other brands because you never know what you are getting. Don't buy them unless they are USP and/or FDA certified.

    K2.png Zinc.png
     
  4. WD5JKO

    WD5JKO Member

    Just tuning in here.....I'd like to make the point that the blood lipid tests don't measure the LDL and VLDL cholesterol, but they do measure Total, and HDL. Outside of that they also measure Triglycerides. The link below redefines how the they get around this. The VLDL is replaced with Triglycerides/5, and then they solve for LDL algebraically. If you have a print out of your numbers, just plug in your numbers in the equation below. It will be exact.

    The reason why this trips you up is for those on a low Carb diet often have a very low Triglyceride level which is good, BUT, using the formula, that artificially elevates the bad LDL number. The good Dr. might then decide to tell you that you need to up your dose of a statin drug, and also tell you that low Carb doesn't work. This is bullshit, and 10 years ago I was almost killed by my cardiologist since I had got a bad case of rhabdomyolysis from the statin. My piss turned brown, and I came close to renal failure. The decision to put me on a statin was because my LDL was about 140 (calculated). That number was high because my Triglyceride was about 60. That Trig/5substition for VLDL in the cholesterol formula was incorrect.

    Here is the explanation that is very hard to find on the net:

    https://proteinpower.com/drmike/2009/06/22/low-carbohydrate-diets-increase-ldl-debunking-the-myth/

    "For reasons we don’t need to go into here, LDL is fairly difficult (as compared to total cholesterol and HDL) to measure. It can be done, but it’s expensive. So instead of measuring it directly, most labs calculate it based on an equation derived by William Friedewald and others in 1972.
    https://proteinpower.com/drmike/2009/06/22/low-carbohydrate-diets-increase-ldl-debunking-the-myth/"

    "Friedewald realized that it was pretty simple to measure total cholesterol, HDL-cholesterol and triglycerides. He knew that total cholesterol was the sum of all the various subfractions of cholesterol, which can be presented by the following equation:

    Total cholesterol = HDL-cholesterol + LDL-cholesterol + VLDL-cholesterol

    Rearranging this equation to solve for LDL gives us this one.

    LDL = Total cholesterol – HLD – VLDL

    Friedewald knew that it was easy to measure total cholesterol and HDL but difficult to measure the others. His insight was that the triglyceride level if divided by five could give a close approximation of VLDL. In running his experiments he also realized that this relationship held only if triglyceride levels were 400 mg/dl or under. If they were over this, all bets were off.

    So, Friedewald substituted triglycerides (TGL) divided by 5 for VLDL in the above equations, giving us the so-called Friedewald equation for calculating LDL.

    LDL = Total cholesterol – HDL – TGL/5

    And this is how it is still done in labs all over the world 27 years after Friedewald’s paper. If you’ve had a lab report showing an LDL figure, I can guarantee it was calculated by the Freidewald equation and not measured directly.

    What’s wrong with this if it works? Nothing. If it works. Problem is, it doesn’t always work. Friedewald himself found that in subjects with triglyceride levels greater than 400 mg/dl the equation didn’t hold. Anyone reading this who has had a lipid test showing triglycerides greater than 400 will have note on their lab report saying that LDL couldn’t be calculated because triglycerides were too high.

    I’ve always thought the same held true for triglycerides under 100 mg/dl, which would apply to almost everyone who sticks to a low-carb diet for any length of time. Triglyceride levels of 40-90 mg/dl are not uncommon, and are, in fact, typical. When Friedewald did his work, the triglyceride levels were mainly up in the 150 – 250 mg/dl range, and in this range his equations match pretty well to directly measured LDL levels, but all bets are off with triglycerides above 400 mg/dl and, I suspect, triglyceride levels below 100 mg/dl. MD and I did find this ourselves in a few patients that we did direct LDL measurements on in our practice."

    Jim
    Wd5JKO
     
  5. W5HRO

    W5HRO Administrator

    Hi Jim,

    Yeah I know, you don't like statins, but my lipid profile test does measure both LDL and HDL My LDL was just below normal and my HDL was just above normal like it should be. That's where the cholesterol to HDL ratio came from. It should be below 5.0 and mine was (4.9 :mrgreen:) My LDL and HDL levels are also listed separately in the results though like I said. My Triglyceride level stays right around 150 mg/dL or below.

    Probably back when you had yours done they were calculating it differently, or it's your location and/or lab. I'm not too worried about taking Lipitor. My mom and dad have both been on it since it first came out in the 1990's without any problems and so have I for the past 6 year without any problems as well. Some people do have side effects and cannot take it, but I think the percentage who cannot is low though.

    What I'm more concerned about now is keeping the calcium out of my blood stream as well. It tends to clog up vitamin D3 receptors throughout your body in various places. Old guys like us don't need very much D3, but you want the calcium going to your bones and not through you bloodstream. That's the key.
    .
     
  6. WD5JKO

    WD5JKO Member

    Actually, I think low dose statins are a good thing for many, but for some, such as me, 10mg of Simvastatin (Zocor) over 6 months nearly killed me. The statin drugs in general have a lot of side effects which increase dramatically with the dose. Many are subtle, yet have no outward symptoms. The side effects usually are muscle soreness, longer time to rebound after a strenuous workout. Few, if any athletes can take a statin since whatever their sport, the results go into decline. For women, taking a statin before and during pregnancy can really hurt the unborn fetus. Longer term, things like accelerated aging, ED, diabetes, and Alzheimers become more prevalent, and are simply dismissed due to old age.

    As far as that formula, I wager another donation to your website. Plug in your numbers into this formula:

    LDL = Total cholesterol – HDL – TGL/5

    The numbers when rounded are exact. The lab reports often state if the values given are measured, or are calculated.

    The good news for you Brian is that your Trig at 150 is in the range (150-250) that makes the fudge factor where VLDL= Trig/5 be close enough.

    Jim
    Wd5JKO
     
  7. W5HRO

    W5HRO Administrator

    I did order some of the pumpkin seed oil 1000mg tablets because read where it does work well when taken with zinc tablets. It says to take those with food though.

    Right now, I'm taking 1000mg of Vitamin C, 100mcg of Vitamin K2, 1000IU of Vitamin D3 and 30mg of Zinc in the morning then another 1000mg of Vitamin C in the evening. That's what I have been doing for the first week or so then I will lay off of the vitamin D3 tables, or just take one every other day or every 3 days. When I get the pumpkin seed oil tablets I will just start taking one of those after dinner each night. From what I read a lot of those tablets or the oil itself contains little zinc. It all has some, but the level is usually not enough.

    So, the vitamin C, K2 and Zinc in the morning with my Lipitor, then the pumpkin seed oil tablet in the evening after diner. Then like every 2 or 3 days the 1000IU of D3.

    I have a 3-month supply of each and when that’s gone I will switch to lower levels of the K2 and Zinc if I can find them. About 45 to 50mcg of K2 and 20 to 25mg of Zinc each day is correct with the vitamin C. My zinc tablets are 30mg which is probably ok, but I don't think I want to be taking 100mcg of the K2 for more than 2 or 3 months, but then again it might be fine. I still think 45 to 50mcg would be best though.
    .
     
  8. WD5JKO

    WD5JKO Member

    People with darker pigmented skin are more tolerant of the sun, and as a consequence, they often run low of Vitamin D. I am 1/2 Sicilian, and I have my dad's pigment. He was full blooded, 2nd generation. Anyway, was taking 3000 iu Vitamin D3 for over a year, and when my annual physical came up, along with the blood lipid tests, I asked for and got a Vit D test. The range of "normal" as I recall was 20-80, and I came out at 17, "sub-optimal". I told the good Dr. I had been taking 3000 IU, and he said then try going to 5000 iu / day. I did, and retested a month later, and it came out at 27, the low end of normal. In years since, I keep up the 5K iu/day with some K2, and the tests seem to have leveled off around 40-60, right in the middle of the range.

    I see you said 1000 iu Vit D3, and are skipping some days. A suggestion would be to do it everyday for a month, and then get the D3 lab test to see where you are. My bet is you need 3k Vit D3 / day to get into the normal range.

    Jim
    Wd5JKO
     
  9. W5HRO

    W5HRO Administrator

    Well, I probably have an excess of vitamin D because I drink a gallon of milk in just a few days time. However, I drink skim milk today and have for years because I don’t want the excess milk fat and I got used to it. I've been trying to determine how much other dairy I consume in the foods I eat, but it’s mainly from the milk.

    Maybe since D3 is produced by sunlight via the skin it’s a bit different than ordinary vitamin D you get from eating foods. Even so both vitamins, D1 and D2 have calcium which I don’t really need. Most men when they get older need far less calcium and that’s what I’m trying to avoid.

    I saw where they started producing those joint D3 & K2 tablets which are usually 5000IU of D3 and 45 to 100mcg of K2, but I'm taking the K2 for another reason and I really don't want 5000IU of D3 rat poison every day. That's why I bought separate tablets.
    .
     
  10. W5HRO

    W5HRO Administrator

    Jim,

    By the way, there's a lot of research currently being done on the use of vitamin K2. They have already pretty much determined that it does help clear calcium deposits out of your arteries and D3 receptors throughout your body like in your prostrate, etc. That's probably why the one study I mentioned said that high doses of vitamin C and K2 combined reduced the cancer risk in men by as much as 60%. Think about it, if you are clearing the calcium deposits out of your arteries and D3 receptors then what would the high doses of vitamin C help do? It all pretty much makes sense when you think about it. The only problem is if you take too much vitamin C, like over 2000mg per day it can create kidney stones as it's flushing it out.

    Anyway, you still need D3, but it also depends on your diet. Don’t take it without K2 though otherwise your arteries and receptors will start getting clogged up. All of the hype in recent years about how everyone needs massive doses of vitamin D is slowing killing everyone. Doctors have been on that vitamin D kick for the past several years now and many people are going to pay for it on down the road. Yeah, your bones and everything may be strong healthy, but what good is that going to do if you die from a heart attack instead?
    .
     
  11. WD5JKO

    WD5JKO Member

    I had that argument with a dermatologist. They are still on the band wagon of sloshing on sun screen just to go from the house to the car. Sunscreen stops the conversion of sunlight to Vitamin D. A dermatologist will say to get the vitamin D from diet, not the sun. I am a dark pigmented 1/2 Sicilian, who is better off out in the sun. If I were a blonde or a red head, then that is a different matter.

    I have been taking between 1-3 grams Vitamin C daily for over 30 years....

    Think of the folks from Syria moving to northern Europe or to the northern USA. Massive Vit D deficiency will soon follow!

    Jim
    Wd5JKO
     
  12. W5HRO

    W5HRO Administrator

    I did look at those, because I need to add one last vitamin to my mix. I'm missing vitamin E. After thinking about it I did buy one of the bottles on amazon for $41 and I will just switch to those for now instead. You were right, they have the right stuff.

    vit0.jpg .. vit.png

    Anyway, I had already ordered the ones I have before you posted so I will just take those new ones instead until they are gone then maybe just add the vitamin E and start taking my separate ones again. However, I did find the below from that same company. What I could do is just replace my current zinc and pumpkin seed oil tablets with the below instead.

    vit2.jpg vit3.png


    So for now, the Natures Plus multi-vitamin in the morning with my Lipitor with the pumpkin seed oil tablet at night with dinner. Then I could buy the above when they are gone and switch back to my separate vitamin C and K2 tablets with my Lipitor and include this other one with it instead of the one at night or just take it at night instead. That would probably be easier.

    Another thing too is soft gels are bad for you, but some vitamins have to be in liquid format. My K2 tablets are soft gels, but they are very tiny so those are ok and I only take one a day. However, the big pumpkin seed oil tablets I have are huge soft gels so I don’t want to keep taking those for very long. The reason is there have been people who have gotten on vitamin kicks and started taking many soft gel tablets at once to where they develop a gelatin ball (I forget the technical term) in their intestines and had to have surgery to remove it. Not good. Those other ones I listed above are soft gels, but it just depends on how big they are. The muli-vitamins are not soft gels so they are fine. I just need to find out how big those other ones are because the dosage is two soft gel tablets at once.
    .
     
  13. WD5JKO

    WD5JKO Member

    The XYL just had her blood lipids tested. The results followed the formula exactly:
    LDL = Total cholesterol – HDL – TGL/5

    For LDL they did say "calculated". The formula uses Trig/5 to estimate VLDL, and then with algebra they calculate LDL. Think about that, a formula with two unknowns, where one value is estimated, and then from that the other is calculated. Then they make big decisions based upon:

    LDL > 100 = go on a statin
    or
    Total > 200 = go on a statin

    This is true regardless of the LDL/HDL ratio where they say it needs to be < 3.22

    In the XYL's case, her ratio is 2, and they ignore that. In the past three times now, she has gotten on red yest & rice + fish oil, and brought the numbers down. This also brings the HDL value UP. Then she forgets and stops. If I bug here, then she gets mad at ME!

    Jim
    WD5JKO
     
  14. W5HRO

    W5HRO Administrator

    By the way, I have been sick since September 15th and have been fighting it. Going on the 4th week now. It’s the main reason I really haven’t been too active on the board lately. I think it stated out as a bad allergy attack that went bacterial and kept looping around in 7 day cycles and it just wouldn't go away. Every Saturday morning for the past 3 weeks all I could do is sit in the chair in the living room and then sleep most of the day.

    Anyway, I came to work on Monday and could not stop coughing so I finally said screw it! I made an emergency doctors appointment and got those strong Augmentin XR tablets (antibiotics) and it’s now finally going away. 1000mg every 12 hours for 10 days.
    .
     
  15. W5HRO

    W5HRO Administrator

    Update: I bought and tried the pumpkin seed oil and it did absolutely nothing. A complete waste of money. I even tried Saw Palmetto and took a whole bottle of the Source of Life multi-vitamins for a month and they didn't do much either.

    However, when I finally switched to the below it worked. I'm now taking two of those a day because the dosage says two. So, I'm taking my 20mg of Lipitor, 1000mg of Vitamin C, 100mcg of K2 and one of the tablets below in the morning. Then after dinner in the evening I take another 1000mg of vitamin C and the 2nd tablet below and that seems to be what works. The difference is very noticeable. I get more than enough vitamin D3 because I drink more than a gallon of milk per week myself and all milk today contains D3, even skim milk so don’t listen to what others tell you about needing D3. Your diet will often give you more than enough.

    Anyway, also don’t listen to all of the other nonsense you hear and even some of nonsense your doctor tells you. Even my blood pressure has dropped significantly after I stated taking the vitamin K2 and C every day and the below has greatly reduced the swelling of the other. I think its the combination of all the ingredients and at those levels is what did it. During my last appointment my doctor went what happened? :lol:

    5774_vit2.jpg . 7416-L-1137940.png
    .