Collins from the 50ties..

Discussion in 'Technical' started by NewWave, Dec 16, 2016.

  1. NewWave

    NewWave Member

    Hello everyone..

    I have the opportunity to take over a Collins Broadcast transmitter of a deceased collector. I'm going next week to visit his wife, after the funeral, after I know more about the type and have pictures.. i hope.

    This transmitter is from the 50s and originally from Canada .. i thought ?? This Collins was stored all these years in a dry and warm area.
    Have seen the transmitter once a long time ago and consists of two large closets, big as a "Walk-inn wardrobe" ..
    I remember a large black plate transformer and two very large and heavy modulator chokes, for the 3CX? ?? I thought.

    As far as I know everything is complete, even the original transmitter crystal is still in ..
    He looks like some other Collins that I see on the Internet like the V20 ?? but this one is a bit larger.

    Is it worth it to buy the "Walk-Inn wardrobe" ? because it's a lot of work i think to put this Collins in the air again. Also the capacitors I trust no longer at a voltage of 5000 volts or so after so many years, but i will have a look first.
    Does anyone know what type of Collins this may be?

    Greetings from Holland...Hans.
     
  2. W5HRO

    W5HRO Administrator

  3. NewWave

    NewWave Member

    Looks like the 21E i think, all cabinets are gray with big windows , i remember.
    I'm not sure he has two or three doors/cabinets, but i have seen two 100 KG modulation chokes, 20 or 25H, these big irons were dismantled and behind cabinets close to the 200 KG Plate iron. He has two HF tubes in the PA and two in the Modulation, thats for sure.
    But why two mod. chokes???

    One thing is for sure, if i buy this "Portable" transmitter, i need a truck.. i mean a real one !!
    And.... Send my wife to the clothing shop first, before a start to talk about.....

    Was thinking.... in the left window there was the HF driver stage and the mod driver stage, with tubes like the 807??
    And... I have seen strange big rectifier tubes in the second window ??

    For me it's a little before my time, i mean I was just born.. I'm still young ?
     
  4. NewWave

    NewWave Member

    Have some little bit more information.
    It's a three door 21E 10 KW version Plate modulated by two 3CX2500 and two 3CX 2500 in the HF stage.
    ( Al original service manuals included )
    This transmitter was working in Canada on 1380KHz. until 1969, and after a burning filament transformer he was off air for ever.

    Shipped to Holland in 2008 for 4000 HFL.(Dutch money before the change in Euro) now it is 2000 Euro or so..
    If i buy this big Collins..
    I have to pay 500 Euro for transport to my home (100 KM) so i like to pay 100 or 200 Euro for this transmitter because this woman like to move all things A.S.A.P..
     
  5. W5HRO

    W5HRO Administrator

    Here the manual for that 3-door 21M transmitter below if you don't have it already. The 21E is the 5kW version and the 21M is the 10kW version so it's really a Collins 21M and not the 21E model.
    .
     

    Attached Files:

  6. NewWave

    NewWave Member

    Nice !! Thanks!!

    Was looking for the answer for the two 25H chokes, but now a know a bit more.
    By use one 3CX2500A3 in the HF section there is one 25H choke, by two Tubes, there comes a second choke parallel i have seen in the manual.
    The 3CX2500A3, i have two from these tubes new on stock here...
    Next week i go to the transmitter and take some pictures...

    But what i like to know is. Is this transmitter a special item for collectors, or... nothing special?
     
  7. NewWave

    NewWave Member

    But i can remember, some 3CX2500 tubes has Glas isolation, no ceramic...
     
  8. W6MQI

    W6MQI Member

    Hans what kind of service drop do you have coming into your house, but of course you won't be running 10Kw :twisted:. So what is the power limit for ham AM in Holland the same as it is here?
    Might want to hook up a Y-pipe off the final tubes chimney to heat your house during the winter try to reclaim some of the energy that was put in.

    Don't be posting pictures kissing your beloved transmitter ether that's plain ass weird.

    20V2kiss.jpg
     
  9. W5HRO

    W5HRO Administrator

    Those weirdos hang around on QRZ and Electric Radio and is why I stay clear of both :lol:
    .
     
  10. NewWave

    NewWave Member

    Here we have 3 X 50mm2 (400Volt) to the front door from our houses. From there we have 3 X 10mm2 into the fuse board.
    Normal household use only one phase 230 Volts 25 Amps. , but if you ask for three phases 3 X 35 Amp 400 Volts, it's not a problem.
    Even larger fuses is not a problem, i can run every 10 KW transmitter at full Power if i like to do it.

    Before we had 220 (380) Volts, but it change to 230 (400) Volts for some years ago.
    So all my HV transformers gives me now some Volts for free extra.. LOL !!

    All Wall plugs has 2.5mm2 wire, coming from the fuse board. Cooking etc.. has 4mm2 from the fuse board .
    Wall plug fuses in a normal household are 16 Amp. (30mA) for earth leak safety..
     
  11. NewWave

    NewWave Member

    Here my 10 KVA 19 Inch Plug-in homebrew Power supply front side.
    Mainswitch with three 25 Amp fuses, other fuses for other stages.
    Plug has own 3 Amp. fuse for metering or scoop.
    10KV bovenkant.jpg
    Have made on every winding Teflon wire so i can use 1/3 or 2/3 from the total HV Voltage.

    10KVA zijkant.jpg
    Typical Dutch HV transformer from the 70's with air gap between Prim. Sec.
    for in oil filled enclosure for more Power.

    6500 Volts 1.5 Amp. Easy !! But weight is about 100 KG..
    Almost the same as my Mother in low..:eek::eek:
     
  12. NewWave

    NewWave Member

    It's a 21M number 46. All (metal) parts and other things are there.

    Collins.jpg Collins .jpg
    Collins(1).jpg Collins embleem.jpg
    driver section loading.jpg
     
  13. NewWave

    NewWave Member

    Some pics more...

    Collins Gelijkricht .jpg Driver section..jpg
    Collins PA.jpg collins geheel.jpg
     
  14. NewWave

    NewWave Member

    The Left cabinet is an complete TX section like i see here on this site.
    From there i see coax feeder to the PA section and inductive coupling to the PA's grids.
     
  15. W6MQI

    W6MQI Member

    Hans,
    Just saw your post come through on my phone amazing piece of hardware I'm looking forward to future posts on the process of getting this transmitter back on the air.
    Kick butt Hans
     
  16. NewWave

    NewWave Member

    We will see, first i have a look into the service manual, so i know some more about this big beast..:surprised:
    The plate transformer and two chokes i have to carry it by a forklift or so...
    These big irons already outside of the transmitter..
     
  17. NewWave

    NewWave Member

    I don't like to change caps or coils for an other frequency until all works fine, so he will run in the beginning on his last used frequency 1380 KHz.
    Like to build up this whole cabinet in original condition so far as possible.
    One BIG problem we have... Plate transformer use Three Phase 230 Volts...:redface::redface: We have Three Phase 400 Volts..
     
  18. W5HRO

    W5HRO Administrator

    I was going to ask if you knew that transmitter was 3-phase or not :biggrin:

    We don't have 3-phase systems here at our homes in the U.S. There are hams here though that do convert them and make them work on ordinary single-phase 220V and dual-phase 220V. It just depends on whether they use the 3rd ground wire or not.
    .
     
  19. NewWave

    NewWave Member

    Yes of course i knew that, transmitters from this power on one Phase isn't possible.
    Multi tap transformers in transmitters came later... But for 200 Euro.. I don't care..
    Have a look for a 3 phase step down iron.
    The filament etc. can run on one Phase here by one Variac between it, and i have one complete 6 KV DC 4 Amp. what i have used before with other projects.
     
  20. NewWave

    NewWave Member

    You have only one Phase? In the USA ? For me it's totally new !
    And what when you have to use for example... An air conditioner who takes 4500 Watts or more ?
     
  21. W5HRO

    W5HRO Administrator

    We have single phase 110V and 220V here in the U.S. If you have the 3rd conductor (common ground) like most homes here now have today it can be considered a two-phase system, but it's still commonly just called a single-phase system for all practical purposes. When you consider that 3rd conductor it's only carrying the vector sum of the phase currents.

    Back in the old days when all homes here had just the old two wire "Knob-and-tube" wiring with no 3rd conductor it was considered single-phase system and that has been carried over today even though all new homes here now have the 3rd common ground conductor.

    For those 3-phase transmitters you can use what's called a Scott Connection when you don't have a 3-phase system.
    .
     
  22. NewWave

    NewWave Member

    So, if you can use 1KW am without drops in the line, you are a lucky man there?
    I was wondering about your receiver story with extra stabilization against voltage drops on the line from outside.
    Unbelievable !! Like to Call Obama tonight, and ask him what he has done the last eight years?
     
  23. NewWave

    NewWave Member

    But without jokes now... If i put an 1500 Watt Transformer on single Phase here in the wall, and put one 4CX15.000 in it with filament only (1008 Watts) on 6.3 Volts, he will change during one hour from 6.25 to 6.35 Volts.. Even if i put my washing machine on..

    But tell me, what wire (mm2) go's to the wall plugs there with only 115 Volts ?
     
  24. NewWave

    NewWave Member

    I was two times in the States but was busy with driving and looking around, I'm not busy with power lines etc...
    But people say always, the USA is the promise land... But not for radio amateurs, i see now..8)
     
  25. W5HRO

    W5HRO Administrator

    First, I had to figure out what the heck mm2 was :icon_wtf:

    Second, we don't use the metric system here in the U.S. so that's why, but I found an online conversion calculator.

    For standard 110/115V we use 12 gauge (AWG) wire. That equals 3.3088 mm2.

    For heavy 220/230V stuff we use 10 gauge (AWG) wire. That equals 5.2612 mm2.
    ..