60-Meters 5MHz Anyone?

Discussion in 'Ham Bands' started by W5HRO, Feb 23, 2017.

  1. W5HRO

    W5HRO Administrator

    Will be interesting to see what happens...

    FCC Invites Comments on ARRL Petition to Allocate New 5 MHz Band

    In November 2011, the Federal Communications Commission issued a Report and Order that substantially expanded Amateur Radio privileges on the 60-meter band. The new privileges will take effect at 0000 EST on March 5, 2012. The ARRL offers the following as a set of Recommended Operating Practices for these rules changes:

    Amateurs are permitted to operate on five frequency channels, each having an effective bandwidth of 2.8 kHz.

    Table 1:
    Channel 1: 5330.5 kHz
    Channel 2: 5346.5 kHz
    Channel 3: 5357.0 kHz
    Channel 4: 5371.5 kHz
    Channel 5: 5403.5 kHz

    These frequencies are available for use by stations having a control operator holding a General, Advanced or Amateur Extra class license. It is important to note that the frequencies shown above are suppressed carrier frequencies – the frequencies that appear in your transceiver’s tuning display when your transceiver is in the USB mode.

    Amateurs may transmit with an effective radiated power of 100 W or less, relative to a half-wave dipole. If you’re using a commercial directional antenna, FCC Rules require you to keep a copy of the manufacturer’s gain specifications in your station records. If you built the directional antenna yourself, you must calculate the gain and keep the results in your station records.

    When using a directional antenna, you must take your antenna gain into account when setting your RF output power. For example, if your antenna offers 3 dB gain, your maximum legal output power on 60 meters should be no more than 50 W (50 W plus 3 dB gain equals 100 W Effective Radiated Power).

    In addition to increasing the power amateurs can use on 60 meters, the Report and Order also expanded the number of legal operating modes:

    Upper Sideband (USB)

    Each mode comes with its own requirements for legal operation on 60 meters.

    Upper Sideband Operation
    Upper Sideband operation on 60 meters is simple. Just tune your transceiver to one of the channel frequencies shown in Table 1 and operate, being careful you do not overmodulate and create “splatter” that would fall outside the 2.8 kHz channel bandwidths. If your transceiver allows you to adjust your maximum SSB transmit bandwidth, setting it to 2.4 kHz should keep you well within the legal limit.

    CW Operation
    CW operation must take place at the center of your chosen channel. This means that your transmitting frequency must be 1.5 kHz above the suppressed carrier frequency as specified in the Report and Order (see Table 1). Operating at strict channel-center frequencies may come as a disappointment to many, but cooperating with the NTIA is key to expanded privileges in the future.

    The channel center frequencies are:
    Channel 1: 5332.0 kHz
    Channel 2: 5348.0 kHz
    Channel 3: 5358.5 kHz
    Channel 4: 5373.0 kHz
    Channel 5: 5405.0 kHz

    Consult your transceiver manual. Some transceivers transmit CW at the exact frequencies shown on their displays, but others offset the actual transmission frequency by a certain amount (for example, 600 Hz). If your manual is not clear on this point, contact the manufacturer. If you have access to a frequency counter, this is an excellent tool for ensuring that your CW signal is on the channel center frequency.

    Digital Operation
    Our expanded privileges on 60 meters were the result of collaboration between the FCC and the NTIA – the National Telecommunications and Information Administration, the agency that manages and coordinates telecommunications activities among US government departments, the primary users of the band. The NTIA expressed concern about possible interference and requested that amateurs limit digital operating to PSK31 and PACTOR III only.

    It is certainly possible to interpret the FCC Report and Order somewhat broadly as it concerns digital operating on the band, but be careful not to read too much into the text.Therefore, as a practical matter it appears that any J2D data emission is to be permitted up to a bandwidth of 2.8 kHz, provided that care is exercised to limit the length of transmissions

    With an eye to the potential for expanded 60 meter privileges in the future, the ARRL believes it is critical to cooperate fully with the NTIA. Therefore, the ARRL asks all amateurs to restrict 60-meter digital operations to PSK31 or PACTOR III.

    With PSK31 you must operate on the following channel center frequencies:
    Channel 1: 5332.0 kHz
    Channel 2: 5348.0 kHz
    Channel 3: 5358.5 kHz
    Channel 4: 5373.0 kHz
    Channel 5: 5405.0 kHz

    The easiest way to achieve this is to place your transceiver in the USB mode and tune to one of the suppressed carrier channel frequencies shown in Table 1.

    With your PSK31 software display configured to indicate audio frequencies, click your mouse cursor at the 1500 Hz mark (see below). With your radio in the USB mode, this marker indicates the center of the channel and it is the frequency on which you should be transmitting.

    PACTOR III operation on 60 meters is straightforward. With your transceiver in the USB mode, tune to one of the suppressed carrier channel frequencies shown in Table 1. Note that only live keyboard-to-keyboard operation of PACTOR III is allowed. Unattended automatic operation is not permitted.

    Attached Files:

  2. Olegtf

    Olegtf Guest

    ... we can safely say that power limit is already out the window.
    ... violation of channelized structure heading in the same direction.
    11 meters all over, with different sauce.
  3. W5HRO

    W5HRO Administrator

    They should just give us the entire 60 meter band. Just think, we use 80 meters at night and 40 meters during the day. What would 60 meters be like at night and during the day?
  4. W6MQI

    W6MQI Member

    I found 60m to be a great band with interesting propagation late afternoon on. I'm only short maybe 8-9 states on 60m for WAS. Yes the FCC should give us a larger section of 60m then five lousy channels.

    I haven't see this happening at all in fact people are lot more civilized then the trash I hear on all the other bands except 160. 160 is still hanging in there manly because its so hard for most yahoo's to put up an effective antenna.
  5. Olegtf

    Olegtf Guest

    Well, Giving "whole band" requires proper boundaries definition which one you want? Firstly and fore-mostly it will involve relocation all the HF primary users with corresponding expense of equipment replacement - not going to happen very easily. Secondly as of now and I have very incomplete list (dated June 2013) there are as many as 40+ different allocations in different countries, some overlap, some not, some permit only one mode, some permit variety (not necessary all) of the modes available in different parts/channels etc.
    Thirdly we are secondary users, period.
    as for the W6MQI's comment - ignorance is the bliss, most obvious example to the first part would be K1N operation. For the second part - just listen on the channels NOT permitted in the US (5305 for example)
  6. W5HRO

    W5HRO Administrator

    I need to tune my unlocked Alinco transceiver there tonight on USB and see what I can hear. It can transmit there too. I have not even tried it yet. My only complaint is with only a 2.8kc max bandwidth we will never be able to operate AM so what's the point? I guess CW users will love it though.
  7. W6MQI

    W6MQI Member

    Yes I would say AM is out, along with any contesting, or special event stations there just just isn't the room. As for all the other country's with secondary users we seem to be getting along just fine right now with the allocated 5 channels haven't heard any complaints.

    WTF the whole band? No just more room I'm sure more channels could be allocated around the secondary users to not upset anyone they did it with five why not 10 or 20? Maybe they could set aside a channel for the AMers who knows your right WTF do I know?
  8. W5HRO

    W5HRO Administrator

    That was me, the hell with those foreign countries and every thing else that's currently on there, we need a new all-mode band just like 80-meters. It's time to start getting on there with loud 12kc wide AM signals :mrgreen:
  9. Olegtf

    Olegtf Guest

    Well, quite simple so far 60 meters band spans from 5102 to 5425 with snippets and sometimes overlapping portions/channels in that range, thus more coordinated or "proper" boundaries needed to avoid all the conundrum. Remember, radio waves do not really care about geographical borders. Once again - some countries have extensive use for emergency and commercial comms only, in that portion of the spectrum.
    P.S. do you really want to live with the knowledge that some poor schmuck died because you wanted to play?
  10. W5HRO

    W5HRO Administrator

    Well, here's USB reception tonight on 5371.5 and the guy talking is in Texas and I'm here in California.

    This was actually just before dark, I had the blinds already closed in the shack.

  11. Olegtf

    Olegtf Guest

    Here is the difference, I am talking about A9, 4X, S0, 5W, KL7 etc. thus difference of opinions...
    ...on the personal note, why did you started topic if you really not interested to hear responses?
  12. W5HRO

    W5HRO Administrator

    Difference of opinions are fine, but like they always say, opinions are like assholes. Everybody has one.
  13. W5HRO

    W5HRO Administrator

    I took that video last night before 6:00PM PST. The guy talking was in Texas on a 80-meter delta loop only 30' off of the ground and running 100W peak. Later on his signal came way up as the conditions improved after it became dark.

    My little MFJ tuner doesn't really have the right inductor tap for 5MHz, but I was able to find a high Q spot where I could dip it down to around a 1.3:1 SWR. I was unable to tune it completely flat. Probably because 60-meters is new and before that tuner was designed. One of the main reasons I want to use a roller inductor in my modified home-brew T-network antenna coupler design.

    Anyway, I have not tried it yet, but I need to program those channels into the Alinco and then set up the scan and let it scan through them and stop when someone is there.

    P.S. When I bought the Alinco this last holiday season I almost bought a TS-2000, but I decided not to spend that much money and go the super cheap route instead, but I came really close to doing it. Sometimes I wish I had. I guess its time though to start thinking about building the 4-1000A linear again :mrgreen:
  14. W5HRO

    W5HRO Administrator

    Came home and turned it back on after work yesterday and there was a whole group of locals (like around 5) here in Northern California on 5371.5 USB. It's actually a pretty good band and I think because there are not that many people on it. Unlike 75-meters its nice a quite :icon_thumbup:

  15. Olegtf

    Olegtf Guest

    I would suggest you to take a look at http://hflink.com/60meters/
    and I took liberty to quote most pertinent part for this discussion, written by someone more qualified to express opinion in these matters than me.
    USA: 5MHz for EMCOMM, not Ragchew, not Contest/DX
    --an article by Bonnie Crystal KQ6XA

    The 60 meter ham band has quite different operating privileges in various countries of the world. The frequencies, rules, purpose, regulations, operating procedures, and levels of priority are all different in each country.
    In USA, the 5MHz channels for ham radio were specifically requested, justified, and approved primarily for Emergency and Disaster Communications. The stated justification is the need for NVIS and regional disaster response communications to fill in the propagation gap between 40 meters and 80 meters. The process of the Amateur Radio Service gaining access to these 5MHz frequencies was long and exacting.
    Recently, due to another multi-year process of proposal and rulemaking, FCC increased the privileges slightly for hams on 5MHz. However, the FCC put even tighter technical restrictions on 5MHz operation than on any other ham bands. 60 meters is not a normal ham band.
    In this new ruling, FCC re-affirmed and clearly spelled out major restrictions for hams on 5MHz. Hams are secondary users (or less) and the Primary users of the 5MHz channels must not be interfered with in any way that harms their communications.
    Non-interference with a Primary user isn't just a matter of stopping transmitting if you are asked to. It can also mean refraining from transmitting, if there is any chance that you might be preventing a Primary user from utilizing or starting communications on the channel, even if you are not asked specifically. The only way we can hope to fulfill our requirement for non-interference, is to use very short transmissions and listen/watch carefully between transmissions.
    What are some common amateur radio operating practices that may not be suitable for 5MHz 60 meter band operation in USA?
    1. Calling CQ DX repetitively.
    2. Long CQs.
    3. Longwinded ragchews.
    4. Calling in pile-ups.
    5. High power transmissions.
    6. Contesting.
    7. Sending a long brag file on PSK31.
    8. Transmitting without listening first.
    9. Split DX exchanges.
    In order to be ready for Emergency/Disaster Communications, hams need to have good familiarity with the band and have equipment capable of operating 5MHz. Hams can only do this by participating in active operating on the 5MHz band. Somehow, we need to achieve a balance between a good level of activity and the requirement for non-interference. Finding this balance may be difficult, but for the most part, hams are quite adept at good operating habits.
    Every ham operator transmitting on 5MHz must pay special attention to the different operating methods and procedures that this unique authorization requires.
    There are proposals in the works to create an international ITU allocation of a 60 meter Amateur Radio Service band with Secondary status.
    If hams in USA are found to be operating in ways that disregard the spirit of the requested, justified, and approved reasons for which we obtained 5MHz privileges, then it may be extremely difficult to ever get FCC support for increased spectrum.
    Bonnie Crystal KQ6XA

    ©2012 HFLINK. All Rights Reserved.
  16. W5HRO

    W5HRO Administrator

    Here's the main problem with that... here in the U.S. (and most countries in general) hams do absolutely nothing for "Emergency and Disaster Communications" anymore. That's a bullshit justification hams and the ARRL are using to gain new bands and privileges and to keep from losing any we already have. With today’s technology like cell phones and the Internet the need for that type of old dinosaur radio communication by hams no longer exists. Again, it's a bullshit excuse we use to keep our hobby going and to try and gain more stuff, but everyone knows it's bullshit. If you don't then I guess like they also say, ignorance is bliss...
  17. Olegtf

    Olegtf Guest

    ...well unfortunately, it is not your ability to run contest, or catch 55 WPM, or having nice plastic covered pieces of plywood on the wall, but that fable about ERC which keeps everything in place, and allows to keep communication lines open to legislative offices. Its capitalism baby, if you don't bring any monies - well you free to go. How long do you think its going to take to auction parts of the spectrum and will you be able to foot the bill? I was and still strongly disagree with majority of what ARRL does, but after spending few months in 'ere ( I did few equipment reviews) and seeing from inside reasoning behind few decisions I changed my outlook on quite a few things. FYI few years back EOC at Red Cross chapters received short e-mail to stop supporting interfacing with ARS and nets. Phase out comm equipment and quietly get rid of existing one. I'll let you take a wild guess how many repeaters went off line because users had to face actual costs...
    I am not trying to convert you, just saying, breaking something is much easier, than getting it rebuild again....


    ... that picture is what we had :-(
    P.S. I am not trying to disprove your thesis in fact I agree with most of what you said, but you can't go to the senator or congressman and tell him - hey partner why don't you include some relief for the 0.001% of American population who can't put antennas on their back yards, because they simply want to play with their toys. But if you say - it will affect emergency communication capabilities and disaster preparedness, we are part of federal... bla bla bla ( you know the drill) and providing invaluable services to the community, it probably will sounds little better better in high offices. and so on and so forth...
  18. W5HRO

    W5HRO Administrator

    What, sell off the lower HF spectrum? To who? Besides some possible marine outfits I'm not too worried about losing any HF spectrum. If hams are worried about any loss then look at the VHF and UHF spectrums on up that hams seldom even use anymore. It's a joke and those are the ones in jeopardy. The way I see it there's going to be a lot of spectrum space open up in the coming years on HF, LF and maybe even within the MF spectrum. Bands like this 60 meter band are just the beginning.
  19. Olegtf

    Olegtf Guest

    since you asked - and I do this for living, I work in QC department. All of the mining equipment, including remote controls to the machinery, and actual communications in the mining industry around the world operate on the MF lower HF, they would love to just buy it off and not to deal with complications as we have to now. All the magnetic resonant imaging - same story, they are not interested in using spectrum, they are interested in getting rid of any one who can complain or create complications. Power companies with all the "smart" meters, RF ID providers - same reason its cheaper to buy it out and never use it. Internet providers, switching power equipment manufacturers, mainly commercial - VFD - variable frequency drive has models spewing 60 kW of power, buy off the spectrum and large portion of the cost to keep it "clean" can be saved. automotive industry... down to simple lights and domestic electronics - try not to put 2 caps in 1 000 000 000 units. And so on and so forth... Hitachi who owns our plant produces everything from sewing needles to cranes, and they make no beef about "... how nice it would be to get rid of all the..."
  20. Olegtf

    Olegtf Guest

    Ignorance is a bliss...
  21. W5HRO

    W5HRO Administrator

    You live in a dream world...

    First the majority of the RF stuff that is used in those industries is up in the spectrums above HF now. I've worked for geoscience companies in the past and nothing operated down in the lower HF and MF regions. The majority of it moved up above HF years ago like the 3D mapping (imaging). Most of the stuff that operated down low has been decommissioned and what's left is still being decommissioned or has already been converted to GPS. Little by little it's freeing up and the PLC stuff you are referring to doesn't even really apply.

    When it comes down to it the only person here who has an attitude or has an issue with any of this is you.
  22. Olegtf

    Olegtf Guest

    whatever floats your little magical boat... typical CA idiot.
  23. W5HRO

    W5HRO Administrator

    Well, I was born in Indiana and then lived in Oklahoma for about 25 years after until moving here to CA back in January of 2000 so I'm not a CA idiot. Quite the opposite, but my life and story is a bit unusual and it shows just how little you really know.

    Not sure why someone like you though would have such a poor attitude about U.S. hams wanting to get on this new 60-meter band and actually use it. Ham radio is nothing more than a hobby and like all hobbies they are meant to be enjoyed.

    You remind of those guys on AMfone like Pete who have that same dickhead attitude.
  24. Olegtf

    Olegtf Guest

    Well, thank you for your unusual life story...
    After having worked 60+ countries on 60M and complete WAS I really careless about someone who is WANTING to work on 60M, Just put antenna up and start operating, its my solution to any of this discussions.
    I got your definition of enjoyment, loud and clear:-"...hell with those foreign countries and every thing else that's currently on there, we need a new all-mode band just like 80-meters. It's time to start getting on there with loud 12kc wide AM signals."
    I have no idea who is the Pete, and haven't owned microphone leave alone used one since 1989 or so...
    ...anyways, keep enjoying your virtual 60M band here. Obviously you are not overly used to hear something different from what you want to hear.
    BTW try to use your VHF/UHF GPS etc stuff inside the mine, underground. Trust me, there are still good, old HF radios inside. Heavy, welded stainless steel boxes water proof and air tight (at least most of them) - have to keep 'em inside water tank for 30 minutes before shipping. assembly done in positive pressure chambers.
    I am leaving you to your own devices, see you on the band, may be? someday? ever? at all? 373 will work? ;-)

  25. W5HRO

    W5HRO Administrator

    You left the green smile off the end of that quote. Go back and look at it. That was my response to your first comment below and I was being silly about it. Ever hear of intentional sarcasm?
    I'm only interested in HF on down. I did the VHF and UHF thing years ago and I no longer have any interest in those bands. I say we should just give those bands away in trade for more HF spectrum and lower. Most hams left here in the U.S. today for example are over 50 years of age and most of us want the lower stuff. That's what we started with back in the very beginning.

    Not much mining left here in the U.S. anymore so I doubt that would even be an issue. Most of the geoscience stuff still operates above HF. I worked for a company which drew 3D maps with an RF data telemetry system that operated in the UHF spectrum. We drew maps miles down under the surface of the ground and the ocean floor with it. The maps were used so they would know where to place the drills to find oil, etc.

    I can work on 60-meters now and I have already done it. Had 2 or 3 QSO's on USB already. I'm just always very busy and don't have much time to play radio like when I was younger. Maybe on down the road after I retire I will finally have the time again.

    Anyway, maybe in the future when you post on these boards realize that people might come across a certain way but it's all how you interpret it. When you don't know someone you can interpret something that is said the wrong way like when they are just being sarcastic in response to your previous comments.